I’m currently thinking of installing a second Z-axis motor and change the original z-axis to a trapez spindle. I’ve been reading allot of variations on the forum and I don’t really know which one is the best choice.
10x2: Is good if you want to keep the original layer heights.
8x1,5: Is good because it has finer steps = less friction = less stress on the stepper motors. but you can’t work with the original layer heights.
keeping this in mind, I’m not sure which advantage/disadvantage takes the lead… Can someone help me making the best choice possible?
I’m also thinking about installing a flex-coupler on both sides.
I’m from belgium, so if you can name a place where I can get the parts, that would also be great (currently I only found a webshop in the netherlands, which in worse case is ok)
There are 2 possibilities on upgrading to a second axle:
I am using the 10 x 2 with good quality.
I chose the 10 x 2 over the 8 x 1,5 because that one has a small core.
You can think about this in 2 ways.
If you have a straight axle you won’t have problems with any axis.
But if it is bent a little, a sturdy axle will cause the wagon to move a little with the axle.
When you have a thin core the axle will bend rather than move the wagon.
When you have a larger core the axle wont bent as easy.
I was even thinking about the 14 x 4 axle.
With my second z axle i don’t have any problems with the steppers or extra heat on the drivers.
The z motor is standing still most of the time, the other axis controllers are way more busy.
The choice of which bracket you want to use depends on how much work you are willing to do.
Mine is a 2 piece so you don’t have to disassemble anything to make this work.
It is also adjustable.
I first wanted to use the other one but did not want do do the extra work on the printer.
I’m currently thinking of installing a second Z-axis motor and change the original z-axis to a trapez spindle. I’ve been reading allot of variations on the forum and I don’t really know which one is the best choice.
10x2: Is good if you want to keep the original layer heights.
8x1,5: Is good because it has finer steps = less friction = less stress on the stepper motors. but you can’t work with the original layer heights.
keeping this in mind, I’m not sure which advantage/disadvantage takes the lead… Can someone help me making the best choice possible?
I’m also thinking about installing a flex-coupler on both sides.
I’m from belgium, so if you can name a place where I can get the parts, that would also be great (currently I only found a webshop in the netherlands, which in worse case is ok)
There are 2 possibilities on upgrading to a second axle:
Your help will be very much appreciated ;-)[/quote]
I bought the 8x1.5 Igus (www.igus.be), with plastic nuts.
They have a lot of goodies, they ship from Germany.
Of course you can work with the original layer heights. The stepper has 200 full steps per revolution, and each full step is divided into 16 microsteps, meaning you have 200 * 16 = 3200 steps per motor revolution. The Z axis resolution is 1.5mm / 3200 = 0.000468mm, that’s less than half of a micrometer, or about the wavelength of visible light. You won’t see this error.
Michael
P.S. I have a T8x1.5 spindle in my printer and it works fine.
The opinions are clearly divided on the 2 posibilities Currently my thoughts are going towards the 10x2 because of the thicker core as said in the first reply.
Still I will need to find 2 flex couplers of 10 then
[quote=“RudydG”]
I bought the 8x1.5 Igus (igus.be), with plastic nuts.
They have a lot of goodies, they ship from Germany.[/quote]
Are plastic nuts as good as copper ones? It’s a very nice website with allot of choice. Which one did you take? even when typing in Stainless steel 10x2 I get 8 possibilities!
[quote=“KLucky13”][quote=“RudydG”]
I bought the 8x1.5 Igus (igus.be), with plastic nuts.
They have a lot of goodies, they ship from Germany.[/quote]
Are plastic nuts as good as copper ones? It’s a very nice website with allot of choice. Which one did you take? even when typing in Stainless steel 10x2 I get 8 possibilities![/quote]
i took the plastic ones. they work.
You got to see which suits your needs the best.
[quote=“RudydG”][quote=“KLucky13”][quote=“RudydG”]
I bought the 8x1.5 Igus (igus.be), with plastic nuts.
They have a lot of goodies, they ship from Germany.[/quote]
Are plastic nuts as good as copper ones? It’s a very nice website with allot of choice. Which one did you take? even when typing in Stainless steel 10x2 I get 8 possibilities![/quote]
i took the plastic ones. they work.
You got to see which suits your needs the best.[/quote]
Ok thank you for your help, and do you have flex couplers? If so where did you order those?
the error is bigger. As default, the Z motor is switched off when not in use. Without holding current, the magnetic rotor turns on its own into the next available fullstep position. This motion is not compensated in the next Z move, so if the move consists of a number of microsteps that is not a multiple of fullsteps, you will have this kind of error in every move, adding up over print height. This is why it is recommended to drive Z always in fullstep multiples, which are 0.0075 mm for 1.5 mm lead. Also see here, “Optimal layer height for your Z axis”.
You can reduce this error if your Z rod is kept in its microsteping position due to e.g. friction, but as a general rule, I’d say it’s better to adhere to this “fullstep” setting. I have seen the effect in my prints after switching over to TR8x1.5, first printing with 0.20 mm layer height and similar. Switching to 0.03 mm multiples restored the extrusion widths to the previous calibration.
[quote=“kuraasu”]This is why it is recommended to drive Z always in fullstep multiples, which are 0.0075 mm for 1.5 mm lead. Also see here, “Optimal layer height for your Z axis”.
kuraasu[/quote]
I thought I read this somewhere (probably something you wrote in another topic). So kuraasu, why did you choose for 8x1,5 and not 10x2. Because the thicker core makes me think a 10x2 will be even less wobbly (much harder to bend)
[quote=“KLucky13”]
I thought I read this somewhere (probably something you wrote in another topic). So kuraasu, why did you choose for 8x1,5 and not 10x2. Because the thicker core makes me think a 10x2 will be even less wobbly (much harder to bend)[/quote]honest answer? I didn’t know better at that time …
Well, not quite. I did know about the fullsteps thing before, but I disregarded it. Then I had those strange errors (or rather bad surface quality etc.) in my prints after changing the rod, and I found out that this stuff was actually worth noting. I still think TR8 was a good choice - literally: it’s a choice, not a necessity. The TR rods are usually very precise, including very small bending, so if you don’t get a lemon, there should be no difference between TR8 and TR10. That is, apart from the question which layer heights you want to use and what parts you want to replace (coupler, bearings).
So if I get this right, changing to a 10x2 will not require any changes to the printer firmware? It’s plug and play, as long as I have all parts needed for the rod to be mounted correctly?
(Can anyone come up with a specific list of all parts needed for the transformation to a 10x2 trapez rod?)
I beg to differ. The firmware is set for a rod with 1.25 mm lead as default. Any other lead requires teaching a new steps per mm value to the firmware. This can be done by reloading an adjusted version of the firmware or editing the EEPROM settings.
I beg to differ. The firmware is set for a rod with 1.25 mm lead as default. Any other lead requires teaching a new steps per mm value to the firmware. This can be done by reloading an adjusted version of the firmware or editing the EEPROM settings.
Cheers,
kuraasu[/quote]
About those eeprom settings. I tried to change them yesterday but all the values just show 0’s. Why is that?
I beg to differ. The firmware is set for a rod with 1.25 mm lead as default. Any other lead requires teaching a new steps per mm value to the firmware. This can be done by reloading an adjusted version of the firmware or editing the EEPROM settings.
Cheers,
kuraasu[/quote]
Indeed, in the cas you change the pitch of the rod, you will have to adjust the firmware. Ofcourse very easy thing, and the Jozef Prusa reprap calculator will help you
Also, i have the 8x1.5 spindles, and i set my layer heights now in steps of 0.03mm, otherwise, when printing fine layers, you clearly see the errors of the rounding formula.
Also explained in the Jozef Pruse calculator.
Nog big deal, instead of 0.1mm, my layer would now be 0.09 or 0.11, and so on
[quote=“kuraasu”]
the error is bigger. As default, the Z motor is switched off when not in use. Without holding current, the magnetic rotor turns on its own into the next available fullstep position. This motion is not compensated in the next Z move, so if the move consists of a number of microsteps that is not a multiple of fullsteps, you will have this kind of error in every move, adding up over print height.[/quote]
I don’t see any of these errors with my T8x1.5 spindle and 0.25mm layer height. I’m sure that no error adds up. My prints have exactly the correct height.
[quote=“Citystars”]With the 2nd motor.
The wiring can you hook it on on the “normal” z motor?[/quote]
Yes you can, you can increase the voltage of the z motors a little bit (to 0,5 or even 0,6) extra cooling of the motherboard can come in handy
I see. Someone should make a guide (in english) with what parts needed and how to change the firmware
I get really bad Z- results, and I need to do something about it. The printer is almost useless, as I never get happy with the results. Everything else is fine except the Z-axis wobble.
Currently my thoughts are going towards the 10x2 because of the thicker core as said in the first reply.