Vertex K8400 - severe issues. TECH SUPPORT, please read

Vertex 3D Printer Vertex - Computer related problems
1

Apologies for a long post, but this is a serious problem. Edited: Maybe this should be in Printing issues forum. Sorry if wrongly posted.

Had a few phone calls with my supplier today and this seems a very strange problem that they haven’t seen before.

Am attaching this dropbox URL for a photo, showing the problem:
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/739 … .26.11.jpg

I’ve spent the entire day, trying to figure out, why the Vertex K8400 all of a sudden can’t print round shapes anymore. Wether from the Repetier software or from the SD card, all results are the same - round shapes are utterly impossible to print now.

Here is a description of events:

  • Some 2 or 3 weeks ago (?), I bought the printer.
  • Built it in a week, during the evening.
  • Hooked it up to my Windows 7 desktop pc - worked like a charm, perfect.

During last week, I even printed a thread nipple (1/2" BSPT on 1 side, M20x1.5 on the other): it’s the red object on the photo. The M20x1.5 fits straight from the printer into the couterparts’s thread needed, no problem - very good print.

Thursday: Windows 10 installs.
Saterday morning:
[ul]Print something, which starts out just fine. Need to stop (= stop command in Repetier), as I forgot to activate “support” in the Slicer & I’d need that for this print.
Restart the print, now with support.
Shortly after the start, I pop down to get some coffee - during this apparently, the print stops.
Windows has a message that Repetier has stopped working & that it had installed some updates.
(I checked the updates: it was a driver update for the Nvidia Geforce GTX650 graphics card and an definition update for Windows Defender - apparently, nothing that would affect the printer).
[/ul]
After this event … the printer is unable to re-produce any round shape. Even not some it did produce earlier.

On the photo:
[ul]Upper-left - the threaded nipple, as described.
Lower left - a washer, I printed for the nipple.
Mid left - same washer, printed now… Not even remotely the same.
Lower mid - the print I started with this morning, the Z-axis bearing support, which I had to stop due to missing support.
Upper right - a later version of the same print (I had now added a radius, to save material & time): by then I had already tried several times, but decided to let this one to proceed for a bit, to see where it would go.
Mid center - same print as the original Z-axis, went back to the original file from Thingiverse. But the error is constant.
[/ul]

On this second photo, is the red nipple, as it comes out of the printer NOW (via SD Card), using the G-Code of the original one that’s next to it:
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/739 … .25.38.jpg

This is that G-code file:
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/739 … ported.gco

No matter what I try, it is not possible for the Vertex K8400 to print rounds shapes anymore.

In order to resolve this, I have tried following:

  • Set Repetier to Windows 7 compatibility
  • Run as Administrator
    ==> No result

Uninstall Repetier & re-install. I noticed that the embedded drivers could not be re-installed, as the ones on the system were “equal or newer”.
==> No result

Print off the SD card, without the K8400 being connected to the PC
==> No result.

Print off the SD card, using G-code files of the period that the printer was working correctly.
==> No result.

I’ve checked the drive pulley’s, for play
==> No play, all firm on their respective axis & motor shafts.

The belts are correctly tightened and have no play.

This is a picture, showing the firmware version:
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/739 … .30.45.jpg
But as this printer was sold mid July, I would assume it has the most recent firmware - as the last update to that on the forum is of last year.

I hope we can solve this issue swiftly, as the situation is rather disappointing.
Taking all above into account, I don’t think that it is a Windows 10 upgrade problem. Then the original G-code from last week - that produced a perfectly usable M20x1.5 thread at the time - would have printed correctly from the SD Card.
And it didn’t. It had the same error.
I’d have to conclude, that the problem is in the printer. Spontaniously - without any reason that I am able to identify.

Again, hope that this is picked up soon.

I have made a support ticket - but the page didn’t give me a ticket number.
And also for the second ticket, no ticket number…? I have the screenshot, but no number on it…?

Thanks,
Harry D.

2

This kind of issue can come from the motor assembly :

  • motor belt too slack (skipping teeth)
  • loose pulley on the motor

And it’s more often the second one causing this.

3

Hi Raby,

I checked the belt tension: those are tight.

The motor pulleys are interesting though: I can’t check those fully, as their set screws are inside of their mounts.

When manually gripping the pulley, they seem to be tight, but I’ll need to dismount them both to check properly tomorrow night.

Thanks for the suggestion, it’s worth a try. :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Harry D.

4

Hi,

This is 90% a pulley (the ones on the X and Y motor) problem. The download for your Gcode doesn’t work but I have seen this behavior before and it is identical.

It is possible that you cannot feel the play on the pulley on the motor as it is probably right on the edge of tight and loose and when the printer works is suddenly loosens (in corners and apexes of circles).

I encourage you the disassemble the X and Y motors and check the pulleys. This will most probably solve your problem.

The fact it seems always to change the same distance tells me is is a pulley set secrew that is loose on the lat part of a motor axle and it rocks back and forth when jolted loose by movement…

5

Hi Raby & Vel327,

Didn’t get to the rework yesterday - turned out to be a lovely Sunday, so we took the family to the Zoo instead: some things just have to come first. :slight_smile:

But the good news is: you were both completely correct - I took both motors off for checking and 1 had a loose pulley.

I took both pulleys off, cleaned the set screws, the pulley bores & the shafts. Then re-mounted using a bit of threadlock glue (= low breakpoint glue) on the pulley bores & the set screws.
I normally use the threadlock glue on my motorbike, to prevent vital bits falling off while driving… Seemed like a good plan, at the moment. :slight_smile:

The glue has capacity to provide grip in 0,15 mm gaps or smaller, so when tightening the set screw, I should see that the glue will be able to provide grip between the pulley & the shaft - this should then also help to reduce the mass inertia impact on the set screw. I left the assembly to dry for a few hours, while standing on the pulley - to avoid spillage of glue into the motor.

Both motors are re-assembled into the printer by now & as the full-strenght hardening time of this glue is some 3 to 6 hours, I’ll leave any testing until tomorrow, but I’d expect all should be fine then. I’ll confirm in this thread.

Much appreciated, Raby & Vel327 - I appreciate your support! :slight_smile:

Best regards,

Harry D.

6

Hi all,

Just a quick post to confirm - after the above described rebuild, the issues are solved. The printer is working as expected again.

Thanks for pointing out the problem, I wouldn’t have found this out myself just like that.

Highly appreciated! :slight_smile:

Thanks & cheers,
Harry D.

7

You’re welcome;)
Enjoy your printer!

8

That is what I like, having a problem, coming back and report the final status… most often, you will never get an updated status in a thread.
Thanks

By the way, I hat the same prob, and it is most of the time a loose pulley.
A friend of mine made a suggestion.
He is in the steel business and had his degree in it…

I suggested to make a second and third whole and add a screw so the pulley got at least three screws, just to be sure…

He said that is a bad idea, but putting the Locktide stuff between pulley and rod is the most efficient way to do, since the srew is just putting pressure to the opposite site
and this will take care that it will not slip, not the screw itself
So when putting Locktide in-between (rod and pulley) that will be the most efficient way to solve probe like that.

Actually, I did not try, because I will mod my printer a little, but the final installation will be done like this.

Best Frank

9

Hi Frank,

Your friend’s right - industrial glue is a very good alternative, these days.

I used a competitor’s thread locker product on both the set screw and between the pulley & shaft, as local shops in my area don’t supply Loctite.

But if this currently used glue should give in over time & fail me (which could be possible, as it’s designed as a low breakpoint one), I’ll get me some of that green Locktite 638. I know that product from work quite well & that will not even be needing a set screw anymore… :slight_smile:

Edit: That would only be a “last resort”, though - as it’s a very permanent solution.

Cheers,
Harry D.