Small layer shifts

Hello,

So I’ve been printing with my K8400 for a few months now and I can’t seem to get rid of the following problem:

I have tried the following things:

  • Slower printing
  • Adding a Z-axis stabilizer from Thingiverse
  • Different nozzle-height calibrations

None of these seem to help. I’m also wondering if the problem is Z-axis related or if the problem is caused by something else.

When printing at .1 mm layer height, the problem is less noticalbe, but I want to be able to print at .2 mm without having these shifts.

So I’m turning to the forums for help, if anyone has any experience with resolving this particular problem, then feel free to comment :wink:

Also I do realise that the white colour does in fact accentuate the problem.

Kind regards
Ruben

Upon further inspection I think this might be related to a little bit of slack on one of the 670mm belts. Could this assumption be correct?
If so, how can I tension these belst? The built-in tensioners are already on their limit…

Hi,

First, it’s helpfull if you show your pictures directly in the post by using ‘insert image’ and change the Dropbox link dropbox.com/…. to dl.dropbox.com/
I think it is a calibration issue. Have you tried the famous instruction? k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … _Alignment
And sometimes the Simplify3d troubleshooting guide is helpfull too: simplify3d.com/support/prin … eshooting/

Good luck

EDIT:
Remembered an old post with a clear sketch about the z-coupler, but cannot find it anymore. I’ll try to explain: You have to take care that the shaft of the z-motor ánd the threaded rod are not pushed in the coupler too far. Notice that the whole flexible part of the coupler stays free and thus flexible. For me it solved a little layer shifting.

Hello,

Thank you for the tip about the dropbox-link!

I think my XY-carriage calibration should be pretty good, I’ve carefully followed the same guide as you. I’ll look into that Z-coupling though, hopefully that’s where the problem is!

Found the sketch: k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … e=Z_wobble

good luck

Thanks for the link, I followed the guide and the first print (a calibration-cube) looked very promissing!

Dear RubenDenolf,

When I look at your picture and the reference describing the Z-Axix wobble, I can see a fundamental difference:
Z-Axis Wobble is quite repeatable and"symmetric", but your print seems to be “irregular” in wobbling. That’s an issue I observe more or less on every print of mine. It is actually no problem for me, but I am thinking about a different reason:

When you take the Calculator for prusa printers for calibrating the stepper settings http://prusaprinters.org/calculator/, you find a section called “optimal layer height for Z-axis”.

Put in the targeted layer height (0.2mm), the motor step angle (1.8° or 200 steps per rotation) and the lead screw pitch (1.5mm for K8400), you will get a result which is showing you, that the 0.2mm makes an error on Z-Axis height.
Furthermore, the Z-Axis drive of the K8400 has the same stepper driver configuration like the x- and y- stages, which means, that the printer driver board is generating 16 “sub steps”. This means, by small shifts in the driving currents the stepper motor is forced to 15 intermediate position until the next “stable” hardware position is reached. This fine stepping can generate some differences depending on different mechanical forces.

To simulate this fine stepping you can introduce a gear factor of 16:1 in the calculator, and you will still see, that 0.2mm layer height will generate errors.

These errors must be compensated: when calculating the steps for each layer, sometimes a layer needs higher or lower step counts for the stepper motor to compensate the error. But this means, that the actual layer height is different to the nominal, but the extruder is still driving material for the nominal layer height. As a consequence the layer width (!) is changing complementary. And this change in width can be seen quite easily on the outer print line.

With this model I expect a wobbling impression, which is irregular and a little bit unpredictable, but still repeatable in a larger frame, since the error compensation will take place in a regular scheme, superposed by the positioning error of the sub steps…

I tried the improved target height of 0.2025mm an a few printouts, but the impression basically remained. So my conclusion was at that time that the “micro stepping” has the major impact on this effect.

Hi hoh61,

That’s a clear explanation, thanks. Isn’t there any solution for this? How do other printers handle with this problem?

Yes, you may inhibit the micro stepping for the z-axis. But this needs a major modification of the electronic hardware, which has the risk of damaging the electronics.

With sufficient background in electronic hardware assembly and handling you will find a way to modify the three inputs for the stepper driver boards to run the driver without micro stepping. Additionally you have to adjust the default value for the steps per mm for the z-axis to a 16 times lower value.

I personally didn’t do this modifications, maybe it will be a future optimization for me. However, this is explicitly not written as a how-to just to avoid damages.

@hoh61:

Thank you for the information!
Most of the times these small layershifts are not that big of a problem for me too. I just wondered if I could fix it for these straight prints. The shifts are not that noticeable, except when printing with white filament.
Nevertheless, I will probably not try to fix it since I will damage the printer in the process.