I have problem to reach and hold the nozzle temperature for ABS print (250 degrees) (fanspeed 60%)
Now i want to tune up the heater. the original is 15V 33W (2.75A )
I have seen that 220C works for ABS
[quote=“Jansinger”]it it to much for the motherboard ?[/quote]Yes it is. You should have bought a 12V 20W cartridge.
And as Wrong Way said 220° is enough to print ABS.
I won’t get a try to any temperature you hear. From the way you are describing the situation you are close to a damage of the thermal isolator (the PEEK part.)
Try to measure the real temperature in the nozzle tip (even cheap multimeters have an thermocouple for temperature measurements which is small enough to put into the nozzle instead of the filament). At lease recheck the mechanical fixation of the temperature sensor. If it is too relaxed the thermal coupling is too bad and the thermal sensor is cooled down by the fan. By this configuration the real nozzle temperature can be several ten degrees higher than the readout of the thermal sensor.
I never tried it in the original configuration, but you may use some non-conductive thermal paste to improve the thermal link between heater block and thermal sensor.
yes, i know the problem of the real temperature between temperature sensor and the nozzle. i use already thermal paste (works very good only 5 degrees different) - that´s not the problem !
my problem is to reach 245 degree. it is easy to reach if fan-speed is 0 - but if the fan works with 40% or more my temperature goes down to 235-240 and
under 240 the extruder become sometime knocking voice if he works. that’s a sure sign that it is too cold !
i have already try to use this one : thingiverse.com/thing:1213663 because i thought that the heater block get not so much wind. but it is the
contrary - if i use this, the temperature go down to 230 with 60% fan speed. with PLA is works exellent (200 degree and fan speed 100) the motherboard-output
is than 75%
with the heater on the 2. extruder(left side) i have some more problems with the temperature. (he is a more bad) i only reach 245 maximum after 25 minutes heating and if he works the temperature go down to 230). if i change the left
heater to the right heater block (and the right to the left) the problem change exactly with him…only with a smal different because the different voltage between ext1/ext2 (i also change the temperature-sensor - they have no different)
the cable are also not the problem ( constant 14.1V on heating right side and 14.4V left extruder) - the cable ends are tinned and for a test i install a directly cable from motherboard to the heater - but same problem !
i think i need more heat power (20%) but i love the smell from hot ABS coming out of nozzle not from burn-up motherboard :-)))
i have seen pictures from molten and burned “Isolator Guide” of k8400 - I can not do, unfortunately… but I dream about I can do it soon :-))))
…I just remembered: some people go to change to “E3D V6 J-head Hotend” here in forum - the “E3D V6 J-head Hotend” have 12V 40W !!! - maybe they write something about the heater… i read it now
…ok - they have other problems 
- some write : “I ordered the 12v version, but only use the thermistors… and re-use the original heater-cartridge.”
and some write : “You can also use the 12v heater from E3D, i do so on my k8200 without problems.”
i´ts the same motherboard for k8200 and k8400 and the same voltage(15V) ?
i think to much - maybe test is the best
hmmm… what you say doesn’t really fit.
Did you check the resistance of the heat cartridges? Did you use thermal paste (in this case you may use metal filled paste) for the heat cartridge mounting?
So if you’re quite sure that you won’t get too much overheat you may try the next two possibilities:
#define TEMP_SENSOR_0 5
#define TEMP_SENSOR_1 5
And for the E3D V6 hotend; I’m going to transfer my hotend to a E3D V6 “light”. This means, I will take the heater block, the nozzle and the thermal break from E3D. In this configuration I will have an excellent thermal connection to the temperature sensor (drawback for K8400), I can use hardened nozzles for carbon filled filaments (not available for K8400). I will cut the heat-break at the M7 thread side to fit it into the Vellemann PEEK isolator. The Metal block from E3D is consuming too much heat (drawback from E3D). In this configuration I can reuse the original heater cartridge.
So far my planning, I’m waiting for the material to install this modification.
OK, now i use the Heater 12V 40W from E3D - it works very good but is was nice to optimize the PID parametars because my temperature (if it fix on 240) fluctuates between 235 and 248 degrees.
Has anyone done this before?
[quote=“Jansinger”]OK, now i use the Heater 12V 40W from E3D - it works very good but is was nice to optimize the PID parametars because my temperature (if it fix on 240) fluctuates between 235 and 248 degrees.
Has anyone done this before?[/quote]
Make sure, your connectors on the mainboard are clean and tide.
Even with the normal heater cartridge, I blew my HEATER2 connector on the PCB.
In the near future, I will desolder the original 2Pin connector and replace it with a screwable connector (like the main power connector (green), to make sure the heater has best connection.
Did you connect them to the main board (below the printer) or to the original little green connectors on the print head PCB,
where the originals were connected?
If you want to limit the current to the heater you can change this line in the firmware :
#define PID_MAX 255 // limits current to nozzle; 255=full current
with :
#define PID_MAX 150 // limits current to nozzle; 255=full current
For the PID tuning, connect your printer to your PC.
In Repieter do the following :
You can see in the log window, the PID Autotune starting
You will get the results in the log as below :
P: 11.07
I: 0.74
D:41.19
Go to Firmware Eeprom Configuration (Config Menu)
Put the PID values of the last iteration in the PID settings:
Press “Save to EEPROM”.
[quote=“raby”]If you want to limit the current to the heater you can change this line in the firmware :
#define PID_MAX 255 // limits current to nozzle; 255=full current
with :
#define PID_MAX 150 // limits current to nozzle; 255=full current
For the PID tuning, connect your printer to your PC.
In Repieter do the following :
You can see in the log window, the PID Autotune starting
You will get the results in the log as below :
P: 11.07
I: 0.74
D:41.19
Go to Firmware Eeprom Configuration (Config Menu)
Put the PID values of the last iteration in the PID settings:
Press “Save to EEPROM”.[/quote]
Thank you, although I use 2 different heaters (Extruder1=40W 12V - Extruder2=33W 15V= original) BOTH work with the new PID values perfectly and now have a constant temperature !
Hi all,
@raby: can I kill something when I try to adjust my PID with the M303, or is it a save automation within the firmware
Thanks
Frank
[quote=“frank.von.thienen”]can I kill something when I try to adjust my PID with the M303[/quote]No the only thing it does is heating and cooling the nozzle a few times. Chose your usual temperature as target temperature for the PID setting (as 190° for PLA and 220° for ABS) so you’ll have the best setting and there’s no risk of overheating.
Thanks baby,
but one more question…
I did it yesterday on E0, E1, E-1… So all extruders and the heat bed.
I did get different values every time I measured the nozzles and heat bed.
The difference was not much, but not stable.
The difference between E0 and E1 is quite a lot… (I cannot read the figures in their meanings (relation to each other))
E0 P40.73 I6.90 D60.06
E0 P51.59 I8.95 D74.39
E0 P48.59 I8.33 D70.84
E1 P45.23 I6.96 D76.18
E1 P44.75 I6.50 D76.98
So a few questions arose:
Sorry to bother, but I like to understand the impact of such changes, and I like to know what I am doing to the printer
[color=#FF0000]forgotten to mention: I swapped thermistors from Velleman to E3D originals + E3DV6 hotends (with original Vellman heat cartriges [/color]
So I would pass the following into the GCode start sequence (as long as I did it not into the eeprom)
M301 H1 P48.59 I8.33 D70.84 ; PID Ext rechts
M301 H2 P44.75 I6.50 D76.98 ; PID Ext links
M304 P256.40 I45.49 D361.30 ; PID bed
Thanks again.
Best
Frank
The acronym PID means Proportional, Integral & Derivative
The settings determine how the controller deals with temperature variations during printing.
In particular how the control system reacts , proportionally, to a temperature difference. If set at 100% a 1 % deviation of the temperature will result in 1% more power to the heater. Set at 50% it would result in 2% more power for every 1% temp variation and so on.
If you want to know what exactly PID is you can read this.
And there’s an how to in the RepRap Wiki.
And it’s quite normal there’s a difference between the heaters (wide tolerances) hence the usefulness of the PID tuning.
PID tuning of the bed is less critical but can be useful if you experience huge variation (especially if you’re printing with ABS).
Good morning raby,
brilliant… many thanks for the short version of PID. 
I was going thru those pages but decided it is to complicated for a general information.
So only one question remains, how do I get it stored in the printer, since “writing” to the printer is not working.
No M301, M304 or M500…
Anything on that?
If not, I will set it in the GCode sequence in S3D as starting code…
There is a jumper on the main board, but that is for flashing I thought.
Best
Frank
[quote=“frank.von.thienen”]There is a jumper on the main board, but that is for flashing I thought.[/quote]Right. When storing to EEPROM it shouldn’t be needed (but as mine is always in place I can’t tell for sure so you could try to install it).
AFAIK the store command is M500.
You can also write the values in the configuration.h file and reflash your firmware.
I’m a little bit surprised on the last statements. For the PID setting procedures are available in the firmware.
With the code M301 you can set the PID parameters manually:
M301 P xxx I xxx D xxx (capital letters for pid)
As Raby wrote, these values can be store to the EEPROM with the GCODE M500, the EEPROM content can be printed to the command interface with the GCODE M503.
Of course, you should get the actual settings in the RAM by only sending M301.
This is running as described on my firmware for twin extruders.