K8048 Programmer - Software Issues

Hi, recently bought a K8048 PIC Programmer, couple of problems, at first the software was limiting so i couldnt actually select COM14 (which my serial port is) so i had to manually change the COM Port # in device manager to 2 and then chose that in the software, at least now it can communicate with the board.

Well, next thing is that even when i have a PIc in there and the X1 jumpers set accordingly, it will report that there is no pic on board and that the board must be in PGM mode. Well, it is in PGM mode and there is a PIC on the baord

Any ideas whats going on here?

cheers, dave

COM 14 ? that does not sound like a ‘real’ COM-port. Please note that this board does not work with a USB to serial converter or similar on-board devices.

[quote=“VEL417”]COM 14 ? that does not sound like a ‘real’ COM-port. Please note that this board does not work with a USB to serial converter or similar on-board devices.[/quote]You didnt read my post correctly, it was only on COM14 because that was what windows assigned to ym PCI Serial Card, i changed it to COM 2 in the device properties anyway, so thats not the issue at all. And yes, i know it does not work with USB to serial adapters, im not using one of those.

The issue is with the software as described in my first post

there are several possibilities what is going on.
there’s a troubleshootguide on this forum that maby can help you

Just a bit of an update, VR1 gets unbelievably hot, i know its a voltage regulator, and its suppsoed to get a little hot, but seriously, this is mega hot. I’m using a regulated 12v supply, so im not exactly over-volting it.

Another thing, when i flick SW-5 into PGM position, the power LED (LD-7) goes off, same if i switch SW-5 into RUN mode, LD-7 will go off, it’s only on when SW-5 is in the central STANDBY position.

Something isnt right here, i’ve cheked absolutely EVERYWHERE for shorts on the board, checked the polarity of every diode and the electrolytic, as far as i can see all LED’s are correct polarity, all have the flat edge towards the flat side of the markings. There is nothing else that could possibly be wrong, somebody please help

Hi dragon,

You DO have the v/regs installed correctly, don’t you?

VR1 should be 78L12 & VR2 should be 78L05. (You may need a loupe to see the markings)

I’m also using a regulated 12v supply (modded PC PSU) and I have no heat issues whatsoever with the v/regs.

HTH,

Mickster.

[quote=“Mickster”]Hi dragon,

You DO have the v/regs installed correctly, don’t you?

VR1 should be 78L12 & VR2 should be 78L05. (You may need a loupe to see the markings)

I’m also using a regulated 12v supply (modded PC PSU) and I have no heat issues whatsoever with the v/regs.

HTH,

Mickster.[/quote]Hi mickster, i just checked and yes they are in the right order VR1 has “78L12AC” on the side of it and VR2 has “L78L05” on it.

Not too sure whats doing on here, i just metered the output of my supply, it’s a steady regulated 12.23v, it’s also rated at 3A max, so thats not a problem.

ANOTHER UPDATE - I metered the inputs and ouputs of the two Vreg’s and the results are a bit, well, screwed to be honest. With SW5 in the central position everything is normal, VR1 has an input of about 12.1v and an output of about 9.8v. VR2 has an input of 9.8v and an ouput of about 4.9v whihc is all perfect. However, if i flick SW5 over to PGM or RUN mode, it all goes horribly wrong. VR1 has an input of 11.4v and an output of 1.56v,whilst VR2 has an input of 1.59v and an output of 0.03v.

So, im not too sure WHY this is happening, but at least now i know why the software can’t pick any PIC’s up or anything, because they are being supplied with 0.03v when in PGM mode, this would also explain why the LD8 and LD9 do not light up or flash whilst SW5 is in PGM mode

HELP!

what kind of wallbracket do you use.
I use a 12V 300mA non stabilized adaptor and it workst great

qour power supply should give about 16Volt without any load

[quote=“timmie”]what kind of wallbracket do you use.
I use a 12V 300mA non stabilized adaptor and it workst great

qour power supply should give about 16Volt without any load[/quote]As already stated im using a regulated 12v 3A power supply. Your supply would only give out over what it’s rated voltage is if its unregulated, which is never a good thing to have, mine is regulated and outputs a steady 12.2v. The power supply is not the problem here…

VR1 should output 12v, IMO.

If I were you, I would carefully recheck the resistor values at each location…there’s only 31 to do, so it shouldn’t take more than a couple of minutes. Also, recheck T1 to T5…T3 only should be BC557. Recheck polarity of the diodes as well…as you may already know, the black bands on the diodes should be at the thick end of each location on the silkscreen.

Since you have heat at VR1 and low voltage when SW5 is in any other position than “Standby”, there has to be something wrong.

IMO, the manual is pretty good in all respects, except where ZD1 is concerned. This is found last on the bandoliered strip of components, whereas it would be better to place it first and have populating the ZD1 location as the first step in the build. Alas, I’m not an EE so my logic is wired differently.

HTH and I’m sorry I can’t help further from the measurements you have supplied…I’m a tinkerer just like you,

Mickster

Velleman does actually recommend an unregulated PSU, as opposed to a regulated one. I used a modified PC ATX PSU and it works for me. Your’s, however, could possibly be unsuitable but I don’t think that would explain the heat issue.

Velleman does actually recommend an unregulated PSU, as opposed to a regulated one. I used a modified PC ATX PSU and it works for me. Your’s, however, could possibly be unsuitable but I don’t think that would explain the heat issue.[/quote]Ok, thanks for your assistance on this mickster, yes, as you probably guessed, im not an electronics expert, im a tinkerer as you put it.

I have tried it with an unregulated supply, the initial voltage input to VR1 was around 18v and output was 11.9v so that was fine, but as soon as a flicked SW5 over it dropped to 1.59v output…

Checked all diode polarity, thats all fine, checked that ZD1 was in the right place and not mixed up with the other diodes, thats all ok. Checked the transistors T1 … T5 all fineonly thing left to do is to check the resistors, this is proving hard as the res numbers (R1, R2, R3 … R31) are hidden by the resistors themselves, so its kinda hard…

will post back in a few mins on progress with this

ok, i metered every single resistor and matched it up with the manual, everything is in the correct place. I only had one discrepancy. Can someone who has a working board please shove a meter across R31 (which should be 3K3) and tell me if their meter reads 0.00 because mine does, even if i meter an alternative 3k3 resistor it shows up as 3.28 which is fine, but for some reason R31 shows up as 0.00. The only thing different about R31 is that it goes straight to ground, but that wouldnt affect its value as a resistor… would it??

So yeh, still stuck…

In case you didn’t know, you cannot reliably test components in-circuit, due to influences from other components. In this case however, R31 does indeed show the specified resistance in a working board…

Check for solder-bridges between components, particularly the connections at LD9, between pad 8 of the 8 pin socket & the via beside it, and the ICSP header on the solder side - Pins 3 & 2 - centre pin & next pin towards the LED’s.

If you suspect R31 to be faulty, de-solder it & recheck resistance. I’m more inclined to suspect a solder bridge somewhere. Check the points above please.

Edited @ 20:42 to add “Pins 3 & 2” on ICSP header

[quote=“Mickster”]In case you didn’t know, you cannot reliably test components in-circuit, due to influences from other components. In this case however, R31 does indeed show the specified resistance in a working board…

Check for solder-bridges between components, particularly the connections at LD9, between pad 8 of the 8 pin socket & the via beside it, and the ICSP header on the solder side - Pins 3 & 2 - centre pin & next pin towards the LED’s.

If you suspect R31 to be faulty, de-solder it & recheck resistance. I’m more inclined to suspect a solder bridge somewhere. Check the points above please.

Edited @ 20:42 to add “Pins 3 & 2” on ICSP header[/quote]Ok, so heres the deal right now. I de-soldered R31 and metered it, 3.28 so thats fine, i looked and looked for solder bridges, and i mean looked, HARD, for a long time, and i couldn’t find anything, so i tried it one last time out of desperation and it was still having none of it, so i got a bit angry and took the pointy end of some meter test probe leads, i scraped away in-between EVERY solder joint, and i mean EVERY SINGLE ONE, not one single one was left un-filed down. I plugged it back in after about 15mins of scraping and now it seems to be working.

LD9 flashes when in PGM mode, and also in PGM mode LD8 is constant. In RUN mode LD9 flashes, LD8 is off. I think this is all correct, can you confirm?

One thing that is ever so slightly worrying is LD9 now flashes VERY VERY dimly and slowly even when in STANDBY mode, im not worried about the LED flashing but i thought the whole point of STANDBY mode was to protect your PIC when taking it in and out, surely if LD9 is flashing, a small amount of voltage is still getting through tot he sockets??? No…??

As a follow up to my post above, just like to say it programs a 16F628 just fine for the first time, but if you erase the code and attempt to re-write it, it just comes back with the following error:

error message

Any idea whats going on here?? No amount of re-erasing (is that a word!!!) helps, it’s as if erasing the initial code has somehow killed the chip, it recognises that it’s present but fails to write anything to it. Also the Device ID comes up as 3FFF, which it didnt before…

:slight_smile:

Yes, this is correct.

LD9 flashing slowly/dimly still suggests a problem. LD9 should be off in Standby…completely off. When in Prog or Run, it should flash brightly at around 2Hz. Since you have scraped inbetween solder pads to get the board ‘sort-of working’, I still think you have some form of slight bridging.

I STRONGLY suggest getting a loupe or a high power magnifying glass, along with a good light source and giving the board a very thorough inspection.

Yes, this is correct.

LD9 flashing slowly/dimly still suggests a problem. LD9 should be off in Standby…completely off. When in Prog or Run, it should flash brightly at around 2Hz. Since you have scraped inbetween solder pads to get the board ‘sort-of working’, I still think you have some form of slight bridging.

I STRONGLY suggest getting a loupe or a high power magnifying glass, along with a good light source and giving the board a very thorough inspection.[/quote]ok, i will do that very soon, i have an eye glass somewhere that my parents used to use, im sure that could come in handy here.

Any suggestions on the problem in the picture above…? I mean, i have 3 16F628’s, one of which seems to have broken (shown in the picture) two i havent touched yet in case they get “locked” as well… So yeh, any ideas on this? I’m fairly sure the whole idea of a flash memory based PIC microntroller is that you can constantly write/re-write to it with no adverse affect…?

I’m stating the obvious here:

Your comments in bold above hold true when the equipment used to program/erase the MCU is in perfect working order. Since you have already admitted a concern regarding the operation of LD9, specifically -[quote]“One thing that is ever so slightly worrying is LD9 now flashes VERY VERY dimly and slowly even when in STANDBY mode, im not worried about the LED flashing but i thought the whole point of STANDBY mode was to protect your PIC when taking it in and out, surely if LD9 is flashing, a small amount of voltage is still getting through tot he sockets??? No…??” [/quote] indicates that you have acknowledged that a problem still exists, but have carried on regardless.

It has been suggested many times that you thoroughly check the construction of the kit. You seem to have done that to a point, but only the point where you presume it should work.

Until your board is working PROPERLY, as in LD9 is operating as described in previous posts, you should refrain from trying to program/erase PIC’s.

Please take the above as constructive criticism.

Mickster.

I’m stating the obvious here:

Your comments in bold above hold true when the equipment used to program/erase the MCU is in perfect working order. Since you have already admitted a concern regarding the operation of LD9, specifically -[quote]“One thing that is ever so slightly worrying is LD9 now flashes VERY VERY dimly and slowly even when in STANDBY mode, im not worried about the LED flashing but i thought the whole point of STANDBY mode was to protect your PIC when taking it in and out, surely if LD9 is flashing, a small amount of voltage is still getting through tot he sockets??? No…??” [/quote] indicates that you have acknowledged that a problem still exists, but have carried on regardless.

It has been suggested many times that you thoroughly check the construction of the kit. You seem to have done that to a point, but only the point where you presume it should work.

Until your board is working PROPERLY, as in LD9 is operating as described in previous posts, you should refrain from trying to program/erase PIC’s.

Please take the above as constructive criticism.

Mickster.[/quote]Ok ok, i get what your saying, i actually went over the entire solder side of the board about 30mins ago, regardless of wether i could see anything i cleared out inbetween EVERY close proximity adjacent solder joints. I am 100% sure there are no unwanted solder bridges, I’m willing to bet money on that now…

One last thing on the status of LD9, i have read a few other posts on this forum of people saying there board does the same thing, maybe they have the same fault as me somewhere, but either way this has not stopped them programming and re-programming chips.

Again, still on the topic of LD9, it stops flashing really dimly if i take out the PIC (really i shouldn’t have left it in there, my mistake). But yeh, if i remove the PIC chip and just have the baord sitting there with power supplied to it LD9 functions perfectly, it only flashes when i flcik SW5 to RUN or PGM. So i think LD9 could be fine now… i think

Mickster, I would like to thank you now, the help you have given me here is unmeasurable and i really do appreciate it all. Please don’t think I am ignoring your advice, i am listening and acting upon it all