Now available: E3Dv6 manual for the K8400
http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_on_Velleman_K8400
Dylan
Hy Dylan,
you should say in addition, that this is one of many possible options to mount E3D’s on Vertex.
A cumbersome one with many disadvantages, on my opinion.
Another option i depicted just now.
Digi-Bert, I’m sorry but what’s your problem with it?
There’s a mount for the small 25mm fan as the 2nd extruder to gain 20mm on the Y-axis if that’s your concern.
The mount that is used in this setup is one of the popular E3Dv6 mounts for the K8400.
If you think you can do better, write your own guide to help people.
Nevertheless, I received the E3Dv6 store credit 
Dylan
Hi Dylon, no problem.
Please read this page and the page before of this thread.
Everybody can compare.
[quote=“Digi-Bert”]Hi Dylon, no problem.
Please read this page and the page before of this thread.
Everybody can compare.[/quote]
You broadly critiqued a design and was asked to elaborate with specifics. It might be obvious to you why that design is “cumbersome with many disadvantages” but it’s not necessarily so for others.
E3D have three different heater cartridges (link: 12/24 V at 40, 30 and 25 Watts). I got the 30W@12V cartridge with my E3D (they seem to ship any of the three randomly with the head). That gives me the following for the K8400:
P = 15^2/4.8 = 46.9 W
I = 15/4.8 = 3.1 A
Granted, 47 W is overkill for my purposes, and a thermal runaway might even melt the E3D’s aluminium heat block. And using that much more power you really should update the PID variables to protect the thermistor against temperature overshoot at high set point. However, I see no obvious problem for the motherboard by drawing 3.1 A but I’ll let the forum know if I do run into a problem.
Hi Danf,
please read what i have written exactly: i only say that there are other options and everybody can compare. ( i think the “island position” in the wiki is wrong)
And i can constitute my opinion:
- why should i carry around 3 ventilators with my dual-head if i can do it with 1 ?
- why should i waste print-volume when i can win some, changing to E3D-hotends ?
- why should i everytime i need different nozzle-distances turning 4 screws up and down, if i can do this in seconds, not needing that appliance ?
- especially if i want often change the complete hotend with needed nozzlediameter premounted instead of changing the nozzle in place ?
The other point i agree with: “it is not the current”. Please see other new thread of “Heeresflieger”
I only you use 2 fans, one for the E3Dv6 which is advised by E3D and one to cool which can be mounted in such way that you won’t lose any build volume.
There’s no island position in the wiki, you can find also a guide for the K8200 but there are dozen of methods to mount it.
@Danf: I set it in the guide because maybe people would use the 40W cartridge or something, I couldn’t find the exact specifications how much current could be drawn with the current motherboard & PSU.
Dylan
Then you speak about the single-head. We speak here about the dual-head.
And what is with the printvolume in z-axis?
With another design you can win print volume !
In the guide you posted here is only one link to that design.
(wich is invidious i think) example: The complete mechanism to level the nozzles is unnecessary. You can do this easy and faster and with more prospects. (like i illustrated on the previous pages here)
Why not a simple comment in your gide, that there are also other solutions and a link to our forum here ? Perhaps to this thread “E3Dv6 on K8400 (Dual head)” ?
Bert
I can’t make a guide with stuff I haven’t used myself…
And giving a link to other forum was not allowed by E3Dv6 it needs to be a complete guide.
Dylan
Stop arguing about different sollutions. As minitreintje says he cant make a guide out of stuff he hasnt used.
I think the guide is well written and useful for people who wants to get the E3D head quickly.
Such a gide or wiki has a given pretension.
But yes, no whit review or plurality of opinion, if a company that don’t want !
Bert
Hi Raby,
i tested this, it is similar i did it before, but again i only get the error message:
Send: M303 E1 S200 C8
Recv: PID Autotune start
Recv: Error:1
Recv: : Extruder switched off. MAXTEMP triggered !
Changing monitoring state from ‘Operational’ to 'Error: 1: Extruder switched off. MAXTEMP triggered !
Everything is cold, at the moment it is only the left head mounted and on the right side is also a sensor connected. (to prevent the MINTEMP - error)
So i did it like i have learned it (many years ago ;-)) with “step function response”. (LEO knows the word “Sprungantwort” ! :-))
This gives you P= 17, I= 1.23 and D= 71 for my 50 Watt heater cartridges.
With this values it runs very well, only swing of 2-3 °C at heat-up (because it is so fast running up) and working spread at printing of plusminus 0.3 °C
I have not reduced the power, i love the fast response. No wasted time when you change filament or nozzle with printhead …
Especialy if you want to print at high temperatures, occasionally i printed my first parts of Polyamid (a fantastic material) at 276 °C, you are there in a minute.
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[quote=“minitreintje”]I couldn’t find the exact specifications how much current could be drawn with the current motherboard & PSU.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s been officially declared.
The MOSFETs used on the 3Drag controller (which is what Velleman is using) for the heaters are BUK6215-75C (link)
It has a max current (ID) of 57 A. By itself that figure is not very usable.
Some back of the envelope calculations for the MOSFET mounted in isolation using the datasheet:
What is the max current in a room at 25°C?
- Getting the max on resistance
Max transistor temp: 175°C
Power dissipated PD @ 25°C: 128 W
RDSon(max): P=I^2R => R = 128/57^2 = 39.4mΩ
This corresponds quite well to Fig 12, RDSon = a*RDSonmax(25°C) = 2.5 * 15 = 37.5 mΩ
- Getting maximum power dissipation at room temp
The BUK6215 comes as a SOT428 package. Its Rtheta junction to air varies depending on the pad area.
See page 12 here. Using a conservative value of 75 K/W:
Max power dissipation at room temp, P = (175-25) / 75 = 2 W when sinking to PCB.
So, having the MOSFET mounted on a pad area of around 40 mm^2 it can dissipate a maximum of 2 W in room temperature with an internal temperature of 175°C. The current flowing at those conditions would be P=I^2R => I = sqrt(P/R) = sqrt(2/39.4m) = 7.1 A
Does this mean that it’s safe to draw 7.1 A? Some factors to consider:
- The MOSFET is on a PCB with other components getting hot
- You can’t assume that the air under the printer is always 25°C
- Everything in the current path needs to be able to handle the current including wires, connectors, connections
- Actual pad and sink area might be larger or smaller
It’s however a ballpark figure that one can derate or further limit by calculating/estimating the above factors. Both alternatives should be more accurate than simply derating the datasheet’s 57 A. I’ve had no problems with my setup with the heater cartridge drawing 3.1 A (30W@12V => 47W@15V) for instance. I’d be hesitant go higher without modifications - the board connector is rated for 3 A (BTWS1X2 and BTWM10).
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I kinda agree with Digi-Bert that there should be a link to this thread in the guide, here you can find the most information available about the topic.
But nonetheless nice job minitreintje, at least you put effort into making information available!
But I don’t understand why you/(and several others) want to add such a huge nozzle cooler in front of the printhead. I use a high speed radial top fan for this (same buildfactor as stock blower), which blows trough the XY carriage assembly and aims straight below the nozzle. This way you save a HUGE amount of space, and gives a scary amount of air movement.
Kind Regards
JeAfKe
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Hi JeAfKe,
Would you like to share STL file of your hotend and fan fittings? It looks great and I wish to give it a try.
Thank in advance
Darek
Hi JeAfKe,
another very good solution of installing E3D’s on the Vertex ! And thank you for Your ethical support ! ;-))
I was out for a while and want just to report of my meanwhile good experiences with 1.0 mm nozzles.
Cause Banggood offers this nozzles with that big opening for their cheap E3D-Klones i use now numerously i decided to test it.
Result: It works great with PLA and ABS, and their flexibe filament-derivates and all fiber-reinforced types but not with Polyamide (the melt is too thin fluid)
With layers of 0.5 to 0.6 mm height and wall thickness of 1 or 2 mm the printing time decreases dramatically !
Of course it does not affect accuracy, boreholes, openings and gaps are same possible as with small nozzles.
And with the infill of 1mm width the strongness of the printed part also increases a lot.
For regular output you should drive your hotend with the 40 Watt heatercartridge. The 50 Watt i use are not an overkill (contrary you can read sometimes ;-))
Conclusion: i recommend it for all bigger parts without the need of details.
Now i often print the details with smaller nozzles, mostly 0.3 or 0.4 mm till down to 0.2mm and glue or screw them to their location.
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You may be interested in my design: E3D dual head on Velleman VERTEX K8400 with space gain and light thingiverse.com/thing:1687914
Thanks.
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Does anyone with the E3DV6 know how much material they are printing per second?
For now I can reliably print 6mm³/s with the 0.35mm nozzle, and if you look at the extruder filament speed it looks fast.
I ordered some drill bits and will gradually enlarge the second nozzle, hopefully I can get it to 0.5mm without needing more power for the nozzle.
You can buy a 0.5mm E3D-nozzle at banggood.com in good quality for 1.65 € (shipment included !, three for 1.34 € each)
I use them a lot, also other sizes (0.2 mm up to 1.0 mm). Product ID: 981790 for sizes 0.3 to 0.5
As i knew, deliveries into the EU are free of custom and taxes up to 23.- or 26.- Euro, (i order often in China and the USA, never have had any problem, but i live in Spain ;-))
Quality is same as you see of product photos.
Up to aprox. 12 mm³/s is no problem with 25 Watt heatercartridges with 0.5 nozzle, i use 40/50 Watt for more.
hi, 12mm³/s is a lot of material. That sounds good, as I also have to print a lot of big objects without too much detail. Basically a 24hr print could reduce to ~12hrs if I can double the (constant)feedrate, right?