Printer moves to the right every layer | X axis problem

So I still tested some stuff, I managed to make myself a Z axis stabilizer myself with some tools which made the noices dissapear but I still have some issues while printing :confused:

My print quality is way better at the moment!
But when printing afther 10-30 mins there is a layer that starts to shift, as I wrote before I’m sure that the printhead can move freely without belts installed.
But what I notice every time is that when I use the Auto Home function my printer does not stop at the end (top-right corner), So I’m pretty sure there has to be an issue with those sensors?
Any way to test them or adjust them?
My guess is that while printing the sensors aren’t working properly and when any error possible apear the sensor didn’t notice so the printer continues printing on the wrong place.

I’m really out of guessing right now :frowning:
I had a good hope this evening since my first print went really well but all the rest got messed up.

Kind regards

If the end-stops weren’t working the printer wouldn’t print. The tuning of the axis system is really tricky. The first step is having the head running freely from side to side. Next step is adjusting the pulleys and the belts. Try moving the head by hand from side to side. When doing this in one direction, the other axis must not move at all. If it does, it means the pulleys are not set correctly. And also check that the pulleys are running perfectly straight on the pulleys.
Other important thing, the motor belts must be tight. If not they’ll skip teeth. On the contrary the long belt must have some slack.

[quote=“raby”]If the end-stops weren’t working the printer wouldn’t print. The tuning of the axis system is really tricky. The first step is having the head running freely from side to side. Next step is adjusting the pulleys and the belts. Try moving the head by hand from side to side. When doing this in one direction, the other axis must not move at all. If it does, it means the pulleys are not set correctly. And also check that the pulleys are running perfectly straight on the pulleys.
Other important thing, the motor belts must be tight. If not they’ll skip teeth. On the contrary the long belt must have some slack.[/quote]

I will tighten the motor belts a little more then to be sure.
What I have with the belts is that the longest belts are a bit slacky but good (as told in the guide with a fingerpress) But the other ones, the little shorter ones are REALLY slacky in my opinion a little bit to much, but I cannot get them any tightener with those belt clamps.

But what I still cannot understand is that the printer does not know it’s home position on the printer itself, the logic behind this for me is that: The printerhead moves to the requested coördinates, and those sensors must tell the printer when reached, then they know where they are and can print perfectly. My problem is that when doing autohome, the printer will always go 200m on the x-axis, even if it only needs to do 50mm, so the other 150mm will make a lot of noice with trying to move further what obviously is not possible.

I will try the x and y alignment once more, but did this already 2 times. Is there any on site support for these printers, ofcourse with payment. Or anybody in Belgium (I’m from province Antwerp) that is willing to help me on this? I’m 100% certain I’m missing something crucial and if an expert could show me what and how I’m sure the printer will run smoothly.

Thanks again!

[quote=“tommeysen”]the little shorter ones are REALLY slacky in my opinion a little bit to much, but I cannot get them any tightener with those belt clamps.[/quote]You can use a spring from a clothespin to tighten them. Cheap and effective.
For your homing problem, first check if there isn’t a pulley in the way preventing the left leg of the clamp from reaching the end-stop. If not you can try and swap 2 end-stops (X and Y) and check if the problem moves to the other axis.
Usually when the end-stop isn’t working the printer refuses to home the corresponding axis.

[quote=“tommeysen”]Or anybody in Belgium (I’m from province Antwerp) that is willing to help me on this?[/quote]If you’re willing to make the trip to my home town I’m ready to help you (you wouldn’t be the first one ;)).

[quote=“raby”][quote=“tommeysen”]the little shorter ones are REALLY slacky in my opinion a little bit to much, but I cannot get them any tightener with those belt clamps.[/quote]You can use a spring from a clothespin to tighten them. Cheap and effective.
For your homing problem, first check if there isn’t a pulley in the way preventing the left leg of the clamp from reaching the end-stop. If not you can try and swap 2 end-stops (X and Y) and check if the problem moves to the other axis.
Usually when the end-stop isn’t working the printer refuses to home the corresponding axis.

Traveling distance is no problem for me, but I think you speak french and my French is really not that good! Not sure if you can also speak dutch, but would be very nice to learn something from you!
That would save me a lot of time with experimenting and stuff.

I try the following things you wrote tonight when I’m at home and keep you updated.
If you could mail me maybe some of your details we could check when we could arrange a date and time so I can come over! :slight_smile:

Many thanks!

You should remove your email or you’ll get spammed…
Don’t worry I’m understanding Dutch quite well if not speaking it as fluently as I would. And there’s still English :wink:

[quote=“raby”]You should remove your email or you’ll get spammed…
Don’t worry I’m understanding Dutch quite well if not speaking it as fluently as I would. And there’s still English ;)[/quote]

Yes I was planning on removing it as soon as I knew you had my email adres :wink:
Just mail me about it and we arrange a date and you can exchange me your personal details aswell then.

Again thanks for all the effort you put in replying to me and thinking about possible solutions!

I had similar problems and what I did was this, I see that you have already made most of it but can’t hurt to list it, as I already wrote this up in Swedish for another person with the same problem. This is just the translation:

Sorry if a lot of it is of no use to you, but here we go :slight_smile:

In the end for me it turned out to be a faulty driver board for the stepper causing the problems. Sometimes it would simply miss steps all together.

This was manifested by very large voltage swings when measuring the calibration voltage of the driver. Stupid of me not to measure in the first place… But it could just as easily be that the calibration voltage is correct but the driver fails in other ways, be sure to try and swap them (see Wiki for calibration: k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … er_drivers).

  1. Remove all belts from the XY-carriage clamps and make sure everything runs smoothly. When belts aren’t attached the printer head should pick up speed so fast that you feel you need to catch it before it hits the end if you lift one side of the printer only a few centimeters. If you need to lift it more than five something is definitly wrong.

The manual said to not apply too much oil to the rods, in my opinion it’s only too much if it drips off. Be very liberal with oil but try to avoid getting it on the belts. I.e. as much oil as you can without causing any drips. Get some proper paper that won’t give of any residue (not household or toilet paper, I said proper…), soak it in oil and wipe down all rods. Do this regularly. Also, don’t use WD-40, semi-dry PTFE lubricant or other similar products. Use correct machine oil made for the purpose (also known as sewing-machine oil).

If it doesn’t run smoothly follow instructions in the Wiki for adjusting (k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … _Alignment). And don’t forget the oil :slight_smile:


2.
Tighten stepper motor belts by moving the steppers as far down as you can. I made these belts very tight and have seen no problems in doing so. Make sure you have someone to help you with this. Unless you have three hands so you can hold the stepper while tightening the bolts I don’t think it’s possible to get it tight enough. You have to get it both tight AND properly aligned (axis perfectly parallel to the bottom). The alignment is very important in eliminating belt rubbing. I used a construction cross-laser and some additional help from a stone marble on the bottom to first align the printer and then put the laser inside the printer to align the steppers.

3. When bolting the belts back to the XY-carriage my advice is to not bother trying to adjust the carriage rods by measuring distance to the wall. I attempted this a few times but it only caused issues forcing the carriage into a position that wasn’t well aligned with the supporting rods. In the end I first temporarily tightened all the pulleys in what I deemed was a good location, attached the belt holders, then vibrated the table the printer stood on (using an impact drill on one of the legs) to let the carriage fall into its “natural” position. I then torqued the holders down, taking great care holding the carriage still while doing so. In the end I’m not sure how much all this vibrating and messing about helped, but when measuring after tightening the carriage is less than 0.02 out of alignment at the worst place. Might have been just dump luck though… If your alignment is good as it is I wouldn’t recomend trying to redo it :slight_smile:

4.
Make sure all the belts are very well aligned by adjusting the pulleys. If your temporary locations where decent it should be good already, but make sure to get it 100% now. For me the rubbing of motor belts to the longer belts caused problems with incorrect steps. With careful adjustment I was able to almost completely eliminate the rubbing which improved print quality greatly. When all belt pulleys are very well aligned, make sure to bolt them down using bolts in both holes so they stay aligned. When you have made a few prints successfully be sure to remove the locking screws (one at a time!!!) and apply Loctite to secure it in place. Make sure to use a Loctite variant that can be removed with limited heat input.

5. After all these steps my general print quality was way better than I expected for such a cheap machine, with no modifications from stock, but sometimes I would still get a weird shift in one axis. At this point I was confident that the problem didn’t derive from bad setup of the machine so I turned my attention at the steppers, and sure enough, one of the driver boards was faulty.

Start out by measuring the calibration voltage of each driver as detailed in the wiki: k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … er_drivers. If all of these are within specification swap drivers for the X and Y axis and run a few prints to establish correct operation of the driver. If your Y-axis starts to behave badly you know there’s a driver problem.

6. If you still have problems with pure X/Y shift despite properly doing everything above you should try swapping X and Y steppers to make sure the problem isn’t in the stepper itself.

Z-axis

If this takes care of your XY problems you should also spend some attention on Z-axis. Make sure the (crappy) stock bearings runs as smoothly as possible by disconnecting the coupler and repeatedly running the Z stage assembly up and down (100s of times, be careful not to hit the nozzle). Apply generous amounts of oil to the rods. If smooth operation can’t be achieved this way (it should definitely fall down on it’s own at an alarming speed, but might still be a tiny bit jerky in the start due to the bad bearings) loosen the bolts for the Z-rod caps (Z ROD MOUNT 2) and the Z-rod fastening assembly (Z ROD MOUNT 1). Move the stage up and down repeatedly until it runs smoothly and then re-tighten the fastening assembly (Z ROD MOUNT 1). Move the stage some more to ensure it still runs smoothly and then re-tighten the Z-rod caps. The Z-Axis should now be smooth.

Re-attach the coupler and establish that it’s easy to turn the threaded rod by hand. Apply a generous amount of machine oil to the plastic nut but be careful not to overdo it as you don’t want oil in the stepper. Still, not using enough oil is probably just as bad as it will render worse prints with more Z-wobble and prematurely wear the plastic nut down. It might also but excessive strain on the stepper, causing problems with large currents that might damage both the stepper and the electronics. Perhaps not that plausible but it’s a possibility. The rod and the nut seems to be machined to relatively poor specifications so the assembly needs all the help it can get to ensure smooth operation.

Extruder

The Velleman firmware isn’t correctly calibrated for the length of filament it feeds for a certain requested length (not even the latest version). This may work, or it may cause problems. Velleman has compensated for the badly calibrated, overfeeding, firmware by setting a lower filament flow in the Repetier-Host software but it still isn’t 100%. Re-calibrating the firmware will probably save a lot of grief down the road and for me it gave an instant improvement in edge quality of the printed parts.

Temperature

I use Velleman PLA and the high default temperature (210C) in combination with the overfeeding extruder caused way to much hot filament to be applied at a time. This caused components to “sag” in the middle of large areas and it made sharp edges and small holes impossible to print. I dialed the temp down to 190C, but this is subject to constant adjustments. For e.g. the first layer (increase to ensure bed adhesion), very compact parts (further decrease to avoid sag), parts with lots of holes and tiny detail (increase to ensure self adhesion). Note that I don’t have a heated bed.

After all this adjustment I’m now able to consistently print high detail objects at the “Fast” speed of the Velleman default profile with no problems what so ever. All details are sharp, holes are printed well, circles are circular, Z-wobble is as close to non-existent as I dare hope for etc. etc.

Thank you for all these helpful tips, I’ll test them out and let you know if it worked :slight_smile:

So I tried them out all yesterday which was again a lot of work and effort.
What I found is that I could not get my x and y axis smoother as they are right now, but they are fine I think. But I did indeed found a problem!
The stepper driver was indeed not calibrated well, 2 where 1 not. 1 did only had around 0.150 in stead of 0.900… So I resolved this fixed some other issues I had because my filament wasn’t able to load anymore because there was some filament stuck in the printhead.

Afther that I tested it again, my first print was perfect. I was able this time to print the Z axis stabiliser perfectly, then I printed something else with a lot of curves which was nearly perfect and I have to say there was 1 layer shifting of around 0,2mm but this could be just accident and that this will get only better maybe. I printed that overnight and took over 4 hours so I did not see what went wrong.

Again I’m thanking you all for the support, I will be testing more next week and going to order myself a heatbed and 2 2 E3D V6 nozzles for better quality.

One more thing, you noticed something about changing the firmware for better filament flow, is there a guide for this or a custom firmware? Not sure what to do for that.

Glad to hear you could finally solve your issues :slight_smile:

Glad to hear it!

If you try connecting with Repetier-Host, heat the nozzle, align filament with the edge where the nozzle of the extruder stops and the PTFE tube starts and then manually press feed 50mm filament in Repetier-Host you will find that you get much more than 50mm.

Velleman compensates for that by using a lower feedrate in all their filament profiles and while this may work good enough while you are running strictly with stock stuff and Velleman PLA/ABS it’s bound to cause problems as soon as you try to change something.

There’s a mention of this on the wiki, k8xxx-3dprinters.crimed.be/w … Mod_extrud. The details there are very sparse and the linked firmware is an old version so I made my own fix instead.

If you are familiar with arduino and G-codes it’s very easy to fix, if not you can use my changes as a reference or just take them straight of if you feel like it, i have uploaded them at github: github.com/goliat43/VellemanMarlinNE

I plan to make some other changes here as well so be sure that you know what you are doing if you take this straight of.

Don’t forget to adjust filament flow to 100% in slicer (CuraEngine) settings after changing the firmware.

However, if you feel that everything is working well now and you don’t feel comfortable digging around in the firmware I would recommend to leave good enough alone and then re-visit if problems arise…

Thanks, I will leave the firmware as it is right now. At the moment I’m using a flow rate of 74% so that will compensate I guess.
Next steps for me are heated printbed and those E3D V6 nozzle’s. I’m actually thinking about installing 2 so I can print with 2 materials or colors.

If anybody has any recommendations, experiences or possible guides for me to prep. please let me know :slight_smile: